Symplectic integrator, non-separable Hamiltonian

In summary, the speaker has been attempting to modify a symplectic integrator to simulate a double pendulum. They are using the Stormer-Verlet equation (3) and have implemented the full non-symmetrical equations. However, these equations are only first order with regard to step size and attempts to increase the order through composition have been ineffective. The speaker is unsure if the asymmetry of the equations prevents them from being composed or if there is an error in their implementation. They have had no response from Maths Stack Exchange and are now seeking confirmation or refutation on Physics Forums.
  • #1
m4r35n357
654
148
I have been attempting to modify a symplectic integrator that I wrote a while ago. It works very well for "separable" hamiltonians, but I want to use it to simulate a double pendulum.

I am using the Stormer-Verlet equation (3) from this source. From the article "Even order 2 follows from its symmetry."

In the case of a separable hamiltonian, ##\nabla q## is a function only of ##q##, and similarly for ##p##, so that the equations form a symmetrical sequence of three function calls.

For a non-separable hamiltonian, this is no longer true, and it is necessary to use the full equations, but these are no longer symmetrical (the first two are implicit whilst the last is explicit).

Anyhow, I have implemented the full non symmetrical equations, and while they are "symplectic" in the sense that there is no systematic "energy creep" in the output, they are only first order WRT step size, and my attempts to increase the order via composition are ineffective (the composition is still first order).

So, my question is this: is it possible to compose these implicit equations, or does their asymmetry prevent this? In other words, have I just made an error somewhere in my implementation?
 
  • #3
  • #4
OK, no response from stack exchange.

I have backed away for a while and returned to experimenting with this, and my conclusions remain the same: non-separable (implicit) symplectic integrators (being non-symmetrical) are not composable i.e. the Stormer-Verlet method is only first-order for non-separable Hamiltonians.

The examples I have been using are the double pendulum, and the Kerr metric (MTW p.900 equation 33.35).

It would be really nice to get confirmation (or refutation!) of this - surely someone on Physics Forums knows the answer?
 

Related to Symplectic integrator, non-separable Hamiltonian

1. What is a symplectic integrator?

A symplectic integrator is a numerical method used to solve differential equations that describe the motion of particles in a system. It is specifically designed to preserve the symplectic structure of Hamiltonian systems, which ensures that the solution remains accurate over long periods of time.

2. How does a symplectic integrator differ from other numerical integration methods?

A symplectic integrator differs from other numerical integration methods in that it conserves the symplectic structure of the Hamiltonian system, while other methods may introduce errors that accumulate over time. This makes symplectic integrators particularly useful for studying long-term dynamics in physical systems.

3. What is a non-separable Hamiltonian?

A non-separable Hamiltonian is a type of Hamiltonian system where the Hamiltonian function cannot be separated into independent components. In other words, the energy of the system depends on the positions and momenta of all particles, rather than just a few independent variables. Non-separable Hamiltonians are commonly found in complex physical systems.

4. Can symplectic integrators be used for any type of Hamiltonian system?

No, symplectic integrators are specifically designed for use with non-separable Hamiltonian systems. They may not be suitable for use with separable Hamiltonians or other types of differential equations.

5. What are the advantages of using a symplectic integrator?

One of the main advantages of using a symplectic integrator is its ability to accurately simulate long-term dynamics in Hamiltonian systems without introducing significant errors. Additionally, symplectic integrators are often more efficient and stable than other numerical integration methods, making them a popular choice among scientists and researchers.

Similar threads

  • Differential Equations
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • Differential Equations
Replies
16
Views
954
Replies
2
Views
983
  • Differential Equations
Replies
4
Views
6K
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
9
Views
915
  • Electromagnetism
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • Differential Equations
Replies
1
Views
2K
Back
Top