Cartesian coordinates vs. The rest of the world?

In summary, the conversation discusses the use of gradient in different coordinate systems and why Cartesian coordinates are often seen as simpler due to their basis on straight lines. The coefficients present in spherical coordinates are seen as normalizing the gradient with respect to the metric, but their usefulness is questioned. The possibility of developing a calculus based on curvilinear coordinates is also mentioned.
  • #1
ManDay
159
1
So I wonder why the gradient in coordniates other than cartesian ones bears coefficients. Let's take spherical coordinates for example. We have

NumberedEquation6.gif

(Source) - Sorry if image doesn't work - too lazy to get the TeX right.

From what I know, I don't see anything that raises cartesian coordinates above any other C/S' (apart from marginal properties such as whether the mapping is reversable). I hence would expect the gradient in spherical coordinates to be

[tex]\vec\nabla = \vec{e}_r\frac{d}{dr} + \vec{e}_\phi\frac{d}{d\phi} + \vec{e}_\theta\frac{d}{d\theta}[/tex],

where [tex]\vec{e}_\dots[/tex] is the unit vector in [tex]\vec{g}_{\dots} = \frac{\partial \vec{r}}{\partial \dots}[/tex] direction (where |g| is not normalized).

After all, the gradient in coordinate q descibes the change of intensity I in q direction. And when I change [tex]\vec{r}[/tex] by a little [tex]d\theta[/tex], the change in intensity is naturally [tex]\frac{dI}{d\phi}[/tex] and not [tex]\frac{1}{r\sin(\phi)}\frac{\partial I}{\partial \theta}[/tex] (why would it be partial anyway?).

So why is transformed from cartesian coordinates? What validates cartesian coordinates as the origin of all transforms, so to say? I could understand the application of the Leibniz'en chain rule if [tex]\nabla[/tex] to a scalar potential in general coordinates were sought with respects to cartesian coordinates. But we are looking for the gradient in terms of spherical coordinates - so what do cartesian coordinates want to tamper with?best regards
 
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  • #2
I'm not sure why you think the gradient having constant coefficients (or, equivalently, that the metric tensor is a constant function of the coordinates) "raises Cartesian coordinates above other coodinates". The crucial point is that Cartesian coordinates are based on straight lines. Because calculus itself is based on straight lines (the derivative is basically a way of approximating a function by a linear function), of course, such a coordinate system is simpler than others. It is largely an artifact of the way we have developed calculus. It would be possible to develop a calculus based on curvilinear coordinates, approximating a functions graph, not by a straight line but by some other curve. If we developed a calculus based on circles, then polar coordinates would give particularly simple gradients.
 
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Likes TheArun
  • #3
How can you argue with a definition? You may think that the gradient should be defined a certain way, but it wasn't. You're free to define an s-gradient, however.
 
  • #4
HallsofIvy, much appreciated. But can you come up with a more graphical explanation for why there are these coefficients? Do they somewhat normalize the gradient with respect to the metric - because that's the impression I have? Yet, I wouldn't see a reason why it's useful.
 
  • #5
If I travel due east at a speed of 1 km per hour for 1 hour, how much change is there in my longitude? (Assume my latitude and altitude remain constant.) In fact, the answer depends on my latitude! (And on my altitude...)
 

Related to Cartesian coordinates vs. The rest of the world?

1. What are Cartesian coordinates and how do they differ from other coordinate systems?

Cartesian coordinates are a mathematical system used to locate points in space using a set of two or three numbers, known as coordinates. These coordinates represent the distance and direction from a fixed point, known as the origin. The main difference between Cartesian coordinates and other coordinate systems is the way in which they measure distance and direction.

2. What is the origin in Cartesian coordinates and why is it important?

The origin in Cartesian coordinates is the fixed point from which all distances and directions are measured. It is typically denoted by the coordinates (0,0) and serves as the reference point for the entire coordinate system. The origin is important because it allows for consistent and precise measurements of points in space.

3. How are Cartesian coordinates used in real-world applications?

Cartesian coordinates are used in a variety of real-world applications, including navigation, mapping, and graphing. They are also commonly used in physics, engineering, and other scientific fields to describe the position and movement of objects in space. Additionally, many computer programs and graphics software use Cartesian coordinates to create and manipulate 2D and 3D images.

4. Can Cartesian coordinates be used to represent locations on a curved surface?

Yes, Cartesian coordinates can be used to represent locations on a curved surface. This is achieved through the use of a coordinate system known as a curved coordinate system. In this system, the coordinates are adjusted to account for the curvature of the surface, allowing for accurate measurements and representations of points on the surface.

5. Are there any disadvantages to using Cartesian coordinates?

One disadvantage of Cartesian coordinates is that they are not always the most intuitive system to use. In some cases, other coordinate systems, such as polar coordinates or geographic coordinates, may be easier to understand and use for certain applications. Additionally, Cartesian coordinates may not be the most accurate system for representing points on a curved surface, as mentioned in the previous question.

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