Phoenix lights return (with video)

[PIT2]

Video 1: http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_038103140.html
Video 2: http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=2299313&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

It looks like the big sighting in 1997.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I am confused: Why are you posting a video of flares? Even in the event ten years ago, it was the intial reports of a craft that "flew directly overhead" and that was "large enough to land our entire fleet of B2 bombers on" that was of interest. The military just happened to drop some flares later on that caused a great deal of confusion; and judging by this report, still causes confusion. AFAIK, it is an established fact that [ten years ago] UFO reports of a large delta-shaped craft were coming into radio stations about an hour before the flares were even dropped. To throw this in the mix now only adds to the confusion.

 

[PIT2]

Well i posted this simply because it looks so similar to the famous 1997 video. I can't explain the witness sightings back then (obviously this video doesnt), but do u think this explains the video?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I had assumed that the entire Phoenix lights incident of 97 was nothing but flares until I learned of the earlier radio reports. But, yes, I do think what made it on TV was nothing but military parachute flares. From my pov this was fairly well established using an overlay of the event with a daytime shot. As the flares dropped below the distant mountain ridge, they appeared to blink out. The match of the overlay was exact.

I also think that something else described as a very large delta shaped craft, one described by one witness as being large enough to land our entire fleet of B2 bombers on, may have been seen by hundreds of witnesses earlier that evening. As nearly as I can tell, and based on the timing of the public reports, this is what caused the initial radio reports about an hour before the flares were sighted. Many people have been interviewed who tell approximately the same story. And they don't describe it as a distant set of lights over the mountains, they say that it flew directly over their houses.

I would have to check to be sure of my facts here, but I believe that reports of a similar craft came in from neighboring States before and after the Phoenix event.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

... The lights were flares, said the Air National Guard, dropped during nighttime exercises at the Barry M. Goldwater Range.

That's what they were, insists Lt. Col. Ed Jones, who piloted one of the four A10s in the squadron that he says launched the flares.

Jones, in his first interview with the news media concerning the night 10 years ago, says he can't believe a decision to eject a few leftover flares turned into a UFO furor that continues to this day.
[continued]

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070301/NEWS07/703010425/1001/NEWS

Also, from the report above:

It is agreed that at about 10 p.m. on that date, under a clear sky with no breeze, a string of lights appeared in the southwest sky.

Yet, we find this

...The first call received over the UFO Hotline (206-722-3000) was from a former police officer, who called to report that he and his family had just witnessed a bizarre cluster of red lights moving very rapidly across the night sky in the vicinity of Paulden, Arizona, (approximately 30 miles north of Prescott, AZ) at about 8:16 p.m. (local time) on Thursday night, March 13, 1997. [continued]

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1273.htm

 

[PIT2]

Heres a new video supposedly about the phoenix lights craft:

At Last, KTVK TV Releases Film of Actual Craft over Phoenix

Shortly thereafter, Scott told me that an upcoming special on KTVK would give an overview of the case, and for the first time, "the craft" would be made public. I only recently released this information in a radio interview from Great Britain.

They are calling the triangular craft the "Intruder." Scott was kind enough to send me the stations promotional video on the special, and I will also provide a link to their web page that contains several videos, including the "Intruder" video. It is quite riveting, and I think that finally we can say that at least one unknown flying triangular object has been filmed over Phoenix that even the mainstream media will not debunk.

I want to give Scott a big thank you for being cooperative with me on this and I only hope that the media and Ufology can work together in the future. Opinions cannot change what is true, and to me, that truth is presented in this KTVK/Phoenix special.
http://www.ufocasebook.com/fairandbalanced.html

Actual video is on this page, under the link "the intruder":
http://www.azfamily.com/unexplained/stories/KTVKUnEx20070313_show.e1ffc17.html

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

A former Govenor is saying it's a UFO
http://www.cnn.com/video/player/pla...ch/2007/03/22/tuchman.ufo.phoenix.lights.ktvk

 

[Ivan Seeking]

A former Govenor is saying it's a UFO
http://www.cnn.com/video/player/pla...ch/2007/03/22/tuchman.ufo.phoenix.lights.ktvk

He even claims to have observed an alien spacecraft . He goes on to claim that he played it down at the time in order to prevent a panic. Those are pretty strong words coming from the former governer.

I have to wonder which lights he saw.

 

[bruce maccabee]

Gov. Symington sighting

Symington saw the triangle at about 8:30 PM. He did not see
lights at 10 PM (flares).

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Welcome to PF Bruce Maccabee.

Are you the real Bruce Maccabee or just having fun with us here?

 

[bruce maccabee]

I'm the "real one" ( like a "real UFO"). I happened to "bump into" this website when I googled on JAL 1628. I found a threat discussing that sighting with the discussants apparently arguing from partial ignorance of the sighting facts so I have posted a website (mine) where the complete story with illustrations is presented. Then I happened to notice this discussion of the Phoenix lights and Symington so I added a tidbit of info. IMHO at 10 PM flares but at 8:30 PM, a TRue UFO (TRUFO).

 

[edward]

I have never been able to accept the flare explanation for one big reason. The lights were in an almost perfect formation and equidistant. For a number of F16's to have dropped parachute flares that perfectly at night would be virtually impossible.

That doesn't mean it was an alien spacecraft , only the word "unidentified" applies here. B 2's were in the testing stages at that time and they primarily flew at night. If they were flying in the Phoenix area they could not have risked a mid air collision with passenger planes from nearby Sky Harbor airport. The solution: turn on some lights.

Why did some disappear from view before the others? They flew into the restricted zone of Luke AFB and turned out the lights as they approached for a landing. Or they simply flew out towards the bombing range and turned the lights back off.

The one thing the military did not want to see in the News: Stealth Bombers Make Night Landing At Luke AFB.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I'm the "real one"

In that event, I wish you a very hearty and warm welcome to PF. I have followed your work for many years.

You may enjoy taking a peek at our UFO Napster - stickied at the top of the forum page. Of course, within you will find a number of your own papers linked, so you may want to skip over those. Also, please feel free to add links to any of your papers that have been missed.

 

[bruce maccabee]

Triangulation using the videos and ground references shows that the lights were far southwest of Phoenix, not over Phoenix. Also, they slowly dropped downward and toward the east, consistent with parachute flares falling in an eastward moving air mass (weather shows the air was moving eastward).
See http://brumac.8k.com/phoenixlights1.html and also http://brumac.8k.com/PhoenixSupplement

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Last night on Larry King, former Governer Symington restated his account of the 1997 event. Again he confirms that what he saw passed over Phoenix at about 8:00 PM, so this was not the flares sighted later.

...FIFE SYMINGTON, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ARIZONA: Well, I saw the Phoenix Lights along with hundreds if not thousands of people. And when I saw them on that day in March, I didn't say anything about it. And then the whole issue came back up again in the following June with a big "USA Today," I think, article. And there was sort of a frenzy about it. And so, I felt a little levity wouldn't hurt. So we did a spoof over the alien invasion, if you will. And I think a lot of people misunderstood what I was doing. I was just -- we were just having fun trying to lighten people up over the issue.

KING: So you acknowledge what?

SYMINGTON: Well, I acknowledge that I saw a craft. I was up in the sunny slope area around 8:00 at night. And I went out to look to the west where the -- all the news channels were filming the Phoenix Lights. And to my astonishment this large sort of delta-shaped, wedge-shaped, craft moved silently over the valley, over Squall Peak, dramatically large, very distinctive leading edge with some enormous lights. And it just went on down to the Southeast Valley. And I was absolutely stunned because I was turning to the west looking for the distant Phoenix Lights and all of a sudden this apparition appears.

KING: It was not an airplane?

SYMINGTON: No. It was definitely not an airplane and not a tens. And it was certainly not high-altitude flares because flares don't fly in formation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he's a pilot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a captain in the Air Force.

KING: A captain in the Air Force.[continued]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0707/13/lkl.02.html

I don't think the following quote is correct:

And I went out to look to the west where the -- all the news channels were filming the Phoenix Lights.

I heard him say that he went out to look at the Phoenix lights, which after a moment I took to mean the lights of Phoenix, and not the flares. If he did specify that he meant the lights being filmed, which I suspect was added by the transcriptionist due to a misunderstanding of the content, I didn't hear it. I guess it is possible that I was thinking about the apparent contradiction wrt the time and missed something, but since I immediately caught this I tend to doubt that I missed any qualifiers.

I didn't see any streaming video available, but they do often run these shows a few times, so if anyone sees this, please pay attention to this comment and then post what you hear. Note that this is very near the end of the show.

If you go back and read the entire transcript, note that as usual, Shermer doesn't even know the basic facts. He only had an elementary understanding of the event, and apparently no previous knowledge of the original event at 8PM.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I happened to catch this again last night and the transcript was correct. So even though he clearly states that he saw another craft in addition to the "Phoenix lights", there appears to be a contradiction in the time. He says that he went out to look at the "Phoenix lights" at about 8PM.

 

[Zantra]

Ex Arizona Govenor admits seeing UFO

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/11/09/simington.ufocommentary/index.html

This got my attention. I'm a skeptic, but flares?



Edit by Ivan: Hey Zantra, long time no see! I merged your post with this existing thread.