Friction in Lagrange's mechanics

In summary, the speaker is struggling with adding frictional forces to Lagrange's equations and found information on a website explaining the process. They have questions about the specific notation used for the frictional force and how to incorporate it into the equations. They also ask for clarification on the difference between a Coulomb dynamic friction force and a damping force.
  • #1
Gloyn
41
0
Hi, I'm new here ;)

Please, forgive me the possible grammar mistakes, as English is not my mother tongue and I try to do my best.

I've been studying Lagrange's equations recently, and I've noticed that I don't know how to add the frictional force to obtain the correct equations of motion. I started to search for some infomations, and I found this:

http://www.physicsinsights.org/weights_and_wedge_1.html

There's some simple case solved in two ways: without and with fricion. In the second case, the frictional force is written to be:

http://www.physicsinsights.org/lagrange_1.html#eqn-9 (equation (9))

And my question is: what the hell is that? ;) What are those fs, and generally why is it that form? I understand that it is a frictional force that depends on velocity. What would be the form of non-velocity-dependent frictional force? Would that be just F=mgμ, where m is mass, g is gravitational acclereation, μ is a coefficient of friction? How do I add it to Lagrange's equations? If someone has a while to explain it on an example, jest do the case with a mass m sliding down the ramp, where mass of the ramp is M, angle of elevation of the ramp is β, distance of the mass from the lower end of the ramp is q and the distance of the ramp from some given point on the plane is p. Coefficient of friction is μ.

Thanks in advance for all advice!
 
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  • #2
##f_1## represents a Coulomb dynamic friction force which has constant magnitude but the direction is opposite to the motion of the object. That's why he writes it as ## f_1 \dot q / | \dot q |##

##f_2## represents a damping force that is proportional to velocity. That is a common way to model damping forces, but it isn't what most people would call "friction".
 

Related to Friction in Lagrange's mechanics

1. What is Friction in Lagrange's mechanics?

Friction in Lagrange's mechanics refers to the force that opposes the motion of an object when it is in contact with another surface. It is a dissipative force that is caused by the microscopic irregularities on the surface of the objects in contact.

2. How is Friction incorporated into Lagrange's mechanics?

Friction is incorporated into Lagrange's mechanics through the use of the Lagrangian function. The Lagrangian function takes into account the forces acting on the system, including friction, and allows for the derivation of the equations of motion for the system.

3. What is the role of Friction in Lagrange's equations?

The role of Friction in Lagrange's equations is to account for energy dissipation and the non-conservative nature of the forces acting on a system. Friction is often modeled as a function of the velocity of the objects in contact, and it can have a significant impact on the dynamics of the system.

4. How does Friction affect the stability of a system in Lagrange's mechanics?

Friction can have a destabilizing effect on a system in Lagrange's mechanics. This is because friction dissipates energy, leading to a decrease in the total energy of the system. This decrease in energy can result in the system becoming unstable and exhibiting chaotic behavior.

5. Can Friction be neglected in Lagrange's mechanics?

In most cases, Friction cannot be neglected in Lagrange's mechanics. It is an important factor in accurately modeling the dynamics of a system and can have a significant impact on the behavior of the system. However, in certain idealized scenarios, such as perfectly smooth surfaces or systems with very low speeds, friction can be neglected without significantly affecting the results.

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