Exploring Electron Flow & Mass in Rotating Magnet Sandwich

[madhatter106]

The other week I was doing some reading and had a tangential thought about electromagnetism. one thing lead to another and I was revisiting the Faraday Paradox.

I will state here at this point this is not a question in regards to over unity or zero-point energy, nor is this a pre-lude to such things. I tried to do quite a bit reading and searching about some oddities in the results of some simple experimentation I did. sadly most google hits return the aforementioned subject which I'm not interested in.

So on to the question. What explains the behavior of the electrons flow in relation to the direction of spin and polarity?

I'll try and explain a bit better, I setup a quick apparatus to measure voltage and current in a rotating "magnet sandwich" two 2" ring magnets, possibly ceramic but may be samarium-cobalt due to high pull strength of ~40lbs. 2 copper disks 1.8" dia and brass stator. insulated from ball bearing support with viton o-rings. basically stuff laying around the shop.

not wanting to read any current or fluctuations from other sources I spun the setup with fiber thread wound around the stator, pull start fashion. for higher rpm a couple rubber-bands attached to electric motor to spin up then shut off to allow free-spin and run-down.

since a picture is worth a thousand words I drew up some quick schematics with the data on them.

I've read numerous times about the mass of the electron and how the angular momentum will cause the electron to move to the stator as they are lighter and the heavier positron will collect on the outer ring causing the electron to move inward. however in the testing I did the direction of rotation causes the electron path to change and also in the case of reading the potential from both sides of the outer disk between polarities you'll find electrons where you just found positrons. confused? I sure am, and it gets even stranger when measuring the 'stator' from opposite polarities. AC/DC voltage simultaneously, on/off switching DC voltage. It's probably easier to read the diagrams to see the picture.

I'm aware this isn't a simple question and delves into some heavy study. I can't be the first to have tested this, I can't seem to find any data on this arrangement. No real surprise as the majority of groups 'building' that arrangement seem to be all talk and no proof. I wasn't after energy just curious to see if a picture could be formed from the data that would clarify the issue and possibly shed some light on this with relevant information.

 

[AJ Bentley]

It is a simple question.
This is just a failure to understand the correct application of vector fields. Positrons have nothing to do with it.

A magnet rotating along the axis of it's field does not produce a 'rotating' field.

Faraday did not fully understand magnetism, he was an experimentalist, not a theorist. He was interested only in the practical application of his discoveries. At the time he was working on the dynamo Maxwell had not written his revolutionary treatise on the subject. (In fact he was not born until 1831).
It is not surprising that he found this puzzling, but no modern physicist would call it a paradox.

Rather than waste your time, I suggest you get a copy of a more recent physics textbook and read up on Maxwell's equations.

 

[madhatter106]

It is a simple question.
This is just a failure to understand the correct application of vector fields. Positrons have nothing to do with it.

A magnet rotating along the axis of it's field does not produce a 'rotating' field.

Faraday did not fully understand magnetism, he was an experimentalist, not a theorist. He was interested only in the practical application of his discoveries. At the time he was working on the dynamo Maxwell had not written his revolutionary treatise on the subject. (In fact he was not born until 1831).
It is not surprising that he found this puzzling, but no modern physicist would call it a paradox.

Rather than waste your time, I suggest you get a copy of a more recent physics textbook and read up on Maxwell's equations.

What I'm trying to figure is why there is a difference in polarity based upon rotation? from the reference frame of the spinning disk it would not matter the direction of rotation, however the observed measurement shows it does. The one explanation is of the relativistic mass increase however how does that explain the electron flow moving in opposite directions based upon rotation? or more puzzling the resistance is not symmetric, CCW rotation shows a reduced resistance. you can also measure voltage at both edge's of opposite polarities and it'll be subject to rotational direction. but that shouldn't be possible based upon the accepted QM model and electron mass.

I also don't understand the measured AC and DC voltage that occurs simultaneously where the DC is half of the AC voltage potential when measured at the axis. also the measured data when taken from the edges or axis do not have the same symmetry that the axis/edge measurement shows in reference to rotational direction. I also at first dismissed the hysteresis but when it becomes repeatable in reference to rotational direction it raises questions.

I can only postulate that arrangement of this model is the anomaly. I have tried to run this setup thru femm4.2 but a polar section isn't symmetric. a true 3D would be better but my version of cosmos doesn't do EM.

 

[madhatter106]

In the first arrangement I had the copper disks directly on the magnets and it produced some very interesting results. if measuring voltage from the axis in each polarity i.e. (-) on the S and (+) on N when the rotation stopped from a CW facing N perspective the meter showed an induced current and voltage that continued to cycle for a short period, grounding or breaking the contact. In the next setup the copper was insulated from the magnets with paper tape and the observed current flow at rest was no longer present.

 

[sardar]

I find your experiment and observations very intriguing. The behavior of electron flow in relation to the direction of spin and polarity is a complex topic that has been studied extensively in the field of electromagnetism. However, your experiment adds a new dimension to this study by incorporating rotation and mass into the equation.

Firstly, I would like to address your observation about the direction of rotation affecting the electron path. This is not surprising as the Lorentz force, which describes the force exerted on a charged particle by a magnetic field, is dependent on the direction of the magnetic field and the velocity of the particle. In your setup, the rotation of the magnets creates a changing magnetic field, which in turn affects the path of the electrons.

Secondly, your observation about the electrons and positrons switching places on the outer ring is also interesting. This could be explained by the concept of electron spin. Electrons have an intrinsic property called spin, which can be either "up" or "down". In a magnetic field, electrons with opposite spin orientations will experience different forces, which could explain the switching of positions on the outer ring.

In terms of the Faraday Paradox, your experiment brings up some interesting questions. The paradox states that a magnetic field induced by a changing electric current will exert a force on a nearby conductor, creating an electric current. However, in your experiment, the magnetic field is created by the rotation of the magnets, not a changing electric current. This could potentially lead to different results and warrants further investigation.

Overall, your experiment and observations raise some thought-provoking questions and could potentially contribute to the understanding of electron flow and mass in rotating magnetic fields. I would suggest further experimentation and analysis of the data to gain a better understanding of the phenomenon you have observed. This could potentially lead to new discoveries and insights in the field of electromagnetism.